# a threshold in nature?

**Is there a threshold of self-reference in physical or biological systems?**

Gödel needs addition and multiplication together. Whether physical or biological systems have an equivalent point where they start to model themselves is open.

Connects to:
- [is it arithmetic?](https://mapideas.org/i/c_q1)
- [non-computable mind?](https://mapideas.org/i/r_q)

Source: https://mapideas.org/i/s_q · open on the map: https://mapideas.org/#s_q